Features

Faking a Killing

July 2008

On September 30 2000, two days after Ariel Sharon, then the leader of Israel's opposition Likud Party, went for a walk on Temple Mount, Palestinians mounted a demonstration at Gaza's Netzarim Junction. A 55-second piece of video footage of that demonstration, transmitted that day by the French TV station France 2, was to cause unprecedented violence in the Middle East and throughout the world.

The footage, with a voice-over by France 2's Jerusalem correspondent, Charles Enderlin, showed what was said to be the killing of 12-year-old Mohammed al-Dura by Israeli marksmen. Viewers saw the child crouching in terror behind his father, Jamal, as they sheltered next to a barrel under what Enderlin said was Israeli gunfire, and then slumping to the ground as Enderlin pronounced that he was dead.

That image of the boy screaming in terror before being killed was uniquely incendiary. It portrayed the Israelis as diabolically gunning down a child in cold blood, even as he cowered for his life. It ignited the Arab and Muslim world with apparent proof that the Israelis were deliberately killing their children, inciting a murderous frenzy.

Al-Dura became a poster boy for the Palestinian and Islamist war against Israel and the West. The day after the France 2 broadcast, the second intifada erupted in its full fury; according to the 2001 Mitchell report, the two events were directly connected. Twelve days later, a mob of Palestinians shouting, “Revenge for the blood of Mohammed al-Dura” lynched two Israeli army reservists and dragged their mutilated bodies through the streets of Ramallah.

When al-Qaeda decapitated the journalist Daniel Pearl, the video of this atrocity was punctuated with references to al-Dura. After -September 11 2001, Osama bin Laden said: “Bush must not forget the -image of Mohammed al-Dura.” Several Arab countries issued postage stamps with his picture. On Palestinian Authority TV and in its school books, al-Dura’s example is used to encourage other children to emulate his spirit of “sacrifice”.

But we now know that this whole fiesta of violence and incitement was based on a lie. For whatever people think they saw in those 55 -seconds, it was not the death of that boy. He was not killed by Israeli bullets; he was not killed at all. At the end of France 2’s famous footage, he was still alive and unharmed. The whole thing was staged, a fantastic piece of play-acting, an elaborate fabrication designed to blacken Israel’s name, and incite the Arab and Muslim mobs to mass murder.

It was, in short, a modern-day blood libel, an updated version of the medieval calumny that the Jews target gentile children for murder — which itself caused the murder of thousands of Jews over the centuries.

How do we know the footage was a lie? Because many of us have seen the evidence for ourselves in a French courtroom. Ironically, this blood libel was only exposed to public view because France 2 and its correspondent Enderlin brought a libel suit against a French media watchdog, Philippe Karsenty, for saying that the “killing” was “pure fiction” and that al-Dura wasn’t dead at all.

To begin with, a Paris court ruled in favour of the TV station. But in May this year, the appeal court ruled that Karsenty had every right to say what he said in the light of the evidence. This included the “inexplicable incoherence” of footage, whose images did not correspond to Enderlin’s commentary; the “inexplicable inconsistencies and contradictions” in Enderlin’s explanation; and the lack of credibility of France 2’s Palestinian cameraman Talal Abu Rahma, upon whose -account of the events at Netzarim Enderlin — who was in Jerusalem at the time — had depended.

Denis Jeambar, the director of L’Express, and TV producer Daniel Leconte saw the untransmitted rushes and subsequently wrote in Le Figaro: “In the minutes that precede the gunfire, the Palestinians seem to have organised a staged scene. They ‘play’ at war with the -Israelis and simulate, in most of the cases, imaginary injuries.” At the moment when Enderlin declared the boy to be dead: “Nothing permitted him to affirm that he was really dead and even less that he was killed by Israeli soldiers.”

The implications for France 2 are shattering. The state-funded TV station is now appealing to the highest court in France. Enderlin has blustered that Karsenty is backed by US and French “right-wing”, pro-Israel organisations. This is the desperate flailing of a journalist whose reputation now lies in shreds. For he never imagined that his attempt to silence Karsenty would lead the court to order France 2 to produce the evidence it had hitherto refused to make public — the untransmitted 27 minutes of footage that Abu Rahma claimed he had filmed.

I was in the Paris court on the day France 2 reluctantly complied and I saw the footage (minus a few minutes that Enderlin had excised and which are said to be even more explosive). This showed clearly that the whole thing was a set-up from start to finish.

The cameraman said the Israelis had fired continuously for 45 minutes. Yet the footage did not show people falling under fire. It showed instead Palestinians demonstrating, throwing rocks and so forth, in a positively carnival atmosphere. Youths strutted about, giving declamatory interviews and grinning at the camera; boys rode by on bicycles. And no one showed any sign of injury. There were no wounds; there was no blood. From time to time, demonstrators were pushed on to stretchers and into ambulances — but with no evidence of any disturbance to their anatomy.

Enderlin said he had cut out the scenes of al-Dura’s actual death agony because “it was unbearable”. But when the footage was shown, it became clear no such scenes existed. There was no agony and no death. Al-Dura and his father showed no sign of any wound or injury throughout. Supposedly riddled with bullets, their bodies remained totally unmarked. There was no blood anywhere. A red stain on the child turned out to be a piece of red cloth, which suddenly materialised.

 You see the boy slumping to the ground. But before he does so, while he is still hanging on to his father and screaming, a voice shouts in Ara bic: “The boy is dead! The boy is dead!” Asked to explain this astounding prescience, Enderlin’s team replied that the Arabic in fact meant: “The boy is in danger of dying.” At this, the courtroom laughed out loud.

After Enderlin pronounces the boy to be dead, the corpse mysteriously assumes four different positions. You see the cameraman’s fingers making the “take two” sign to signal the repeat of a scene. And then you see the lifeless martyr raise his arm and peep through his fingers — presumably to check whether his thespian services are still required or whether he can now get up and go home.

This extraordinary footage was first uncovered by Nahum Shahaf, a physicist in Israel’s defence establishment, who was at the centre of the Israeli army’s own investigation of the incident. Shahaf analysed frame by frame the untransmitted rushes from many TV crews.

He observed, from pictures of al-Dura’s autopsy, that the state of the body suggested he had been dead for at least a day; that this boy was older than 12; and that although there were bullet holes in his forehead, there had been no blood on the ground nor on the wall behind him. He also noted, from pictures of the boy’s funeral on the day of the shooting, that shadows indicated this took place around midday. He was told by two doctors at Gaza’s al-Shifa hospital that al-Dura’s lifeless body was brought to them before 1pm. But the incident at Netzarim had not started until 3pm.

Shahaf then discovered from al-Shifa’s records that a dead boy named Rami Jamal al-Dura had been brought into the hospital the day before. According to Palestinian TV and the earliest accounts of the incident, the full name of the boy who was killed at Netzarim was -Mohammed Rami Jamal al-Dura.

Shahaf concludes: “It was just lie after lie after lie.” He also found several short films shot in the Netzarim area on and around the day of the incident. “They used directors, cameramen and volunteer actors,” he said. “You can see them shooting little horror scenes. Often the director scolds the volunteers for their bad acting. The wounded get up and go back for another take; Palestinian bystanders laugh and applaud.”

The implications of this scandal are enormous, going far beyond a disgraced journalist and his TV station. For France itself, it raises a century-old spectre. In 1894, a Jewish French army captain, Alfred Dreyfus, was convicted for treason on fabricated evidence that he was a spy, in an atmosphere of institutionalised state antisemitism. The al-Dura libel is being seen in some quarters as a second Dreyfus affair — but with Israel playing the role of the defamed army captain.

This perception of France’s revived shame was given fuel by the -extraordinary behaviour of the lower court, which found Karsenty guilty of libel. For most of that trial, it had looked as if France 2 would lose, not least because it had failed to answer any of Karsenty’s allegations. But at the last minute, Enderlin’s team produced a letter to Enderlin from the then French President, Jacques Chirac, extolling him as a brilliant and authoritative journalist. As a result, the three judges promptly found for France 2. This disgraceful piece of political nobbling and judicial grovelling has now been reversed by the higher court. But few in France would realise this — what scant coverage there has been of this judgment managed to suggest that the integrity of the al-Dura footage remained intact.

It’s not just the French media that is in the frame here. Over the years, Shahaf’s findings made their way into a handful of newspaper articles, TV documentaries and on to the internet; yet this evidence was studiously ignored by the rest of the media.

It is the most egregious example of the animosity towards Israel of much of the Western media, which routinely reports Palestinian or Hezbollah propaganda as fact and refuses to correct the record whenever these falsehoods are exposed. One thinks of the Jenin “massacre” that never was, or the evidence revealing that alleged Israeli atrocities during the 2006 Lebanon war were either staged by Hezbollah or significantly embellished. Indeed, the presentation of theatrical fictions as Israeli atrocities has become so widespread that the practice has been dubbed “Pallywood” — a grotesque new genre of terrortainment.

Why do Western journalists go along with such deadly fabrications? The answer lies in a combination of their dislike of Israel, professional self-preservation, and the fafct that they depend on local stringers who are virtually all partisans of the Arab and Islamist cause.

According to Danny Seaman, director of the Israel government press office, almost every stringer now delivering local copy and images from Gaza to Western journalists answers to Hamas. Western journalists know that if they cross Hamas, their lives will be in danger — and British journalists, Seaman says, are the most compliant of all.

Palestinian stringers in general, he says — who all see their role as propagandists for the Palestinian cause — have virtually taken over foreign media offices. The result is that footage from Gaza has long been routinely fabricated or doctored, to which practices Western media organisations turn a blind eye. “These were good pictures, -always getting on the front pages and eliciting an emotional response,” says Seaman. ‘Bad Jews, poor Arabs’ sold papers. Then it became so much the reality that no one ever challenged it.”

What Western dupes fail to realise is that Pallywood is a key weapon in the asymmetrical warfare being waged against Israel and the West. Realising they cannot achieve victory by conventional military means, the Palestinians and Islamists use psychological warfare — psy-ops — as a key strategy both to recruit their army of terrorists, and to demoralise, confuse and suborn their victims.

Israel fails to grasp that it is in a psy-ops war — hence its ineptitude in reacting to the al-Dura claims. Within hours, the Israeli army assumed it must be responsible for the boy’s “death” — and said so without even questioning the commander on the ground. It then set up an investigation, which concluded that its soldiers could not have been responsible. But it left it at that for seven years, despite Shahaf’s discoveries.

Although Seaman said repeatedly during that time that the boy’s “killing” was a fabrication, he was slapped down by Israel’s foreign ministry. It decided that the al-Dura image had taken on a life of its own, and so anything that reminded people of that image would be bad for Israel. It failed to grasp that if left unchallenged, that life of its own would cause the deaths of untold numbers of Israelis and other innocents.

Even after the startling developments in the French appeal court, Israel’s government has said nothing (although it has now quietly let it be known that it agrees with its own spokesman Seaman). Similarly in Britain, at time of writing, no daily newspaper has reported any of this; and around the world, only a handful of papers has done so. So the public is unaware that images that have convinced such a lamentable number of them of Israel’s iniquity are false, and that the iniquity belongs -instead to the Arabs and the Western media.

In medieval times, the Christian blood libels led to the annihilation of Jews. Today, al-Dura and other similar libels are promoting the annihilation of the collective Jew in the form of the state of Israel. The Western media have shown themselves once again to be the Islamists’ most powerful weapon against the free world on what few realise is the real battleground of the mind.

COMMENTS: 56

COMMENTS

Stefan Denis
June 27th, 2008
9:06 AM

Paul Stephen
June 27th, 2008
10:06 AM
Sharon visited the Temple Mount in 2000 - not in 2003.

Anonymous
June 27th, 2008
10:06 AM
Will the world listen? Will a latter day Emile Zola stand up and say again, J'accuse in the face of this massive injustice or have we all fallen into the swamp of EU/BBC/UNHRC/OIC lies and anti-semitic discrimination? Muslims have appropriated the media stage for reasons I cannot comprehend. This deeply conservative right wing sect has ring fenced themselves in a collaboration with the left in the most unlikely coupling in history. The left talks of human rights, feminism, tolerance, equality and never balk at imposing it's wildest forms of ideology on us all yet look to the Middle East and Pakistan where not one of those stances is believed, never mind acted upon. We have to wake up and realise that taqiya is the modus operandi and basically never believe a word uttered unless proven by outside sources. That is the lesson we should take from this, but will we?

Anonymous
June 27th, 2008
11:06 AM
The media's compliance with Hamas, however much it is done through self-preservation, is probably the main reason the BBC's Balen report continues to be kept away from the eyes of the public.

Birgit VIOHL
June 27th, 2008
11:06 AM
Gideon Levy's article posted by Stefan Denis says it all. Thank you! One can not ignore that atrocities are commited and international organisations and media have the obligations to point to them - even when both sides of the conflict like to argue that the violence is justified. And while journalists should cover the conflict with the hightes integrity - one should not accuse International Organisations and media blindly and globally as liars and anti-semits. If the footage incidence tells us anything, than that people's suffering should not be instrumentalised for one's interests.

Anonymous
June 27th, 2008
12:06 PM
The year 2004 was a spike inte anti-semitic hate crimes. Enderlin should be charged with aggravated incitement to racial hatred.

Simon Evans
June 27th, 2008
12:06 PM
Melanie Phillips is an apologist for the killing of children.

Carl in Jerusalem
June 27th, 2008
2:06 PM
Not only was Mohamed Al-Dura not killed, he got married in November 2007.

pmk
June 27th, 2008
2:06 PM
So why should I ever care when Palestinians complain of aggression? They cried wolf with al-Dura and they will cry wolf in the future. Someday the attack will be for real and, like the villagers in the fable, I will shrug and go about my business. That's what happens to liars. No one believes them even if they tell the truth.

Anonymous
June 27th, 2008
3:06 PM
Another worthwhile article regarding Mohammed al-Dura http://www.theaugeanstables.com/2008/06/25/just-dont-touch-their-symbol-...

Stephen Gash - SIOE England
June 27th, 2008
3:06 PM
It's called taqiyya. Lying in the cause of Islam

Anonymous
June 27th, 2008
5:06 PM
My favorite protest organization here in the states is "Gays for Palestine". The irony being what happens to gays in actual "Palestine".

Susan
June 27th, 2008
5:06 PM
Melanie, You are a treasure-bless you. I'm organizing a letter writing blitz to my local paper on this. Thank you. Susan in Texas

Bring Back Freedom!
June 27th, 2008
8:06 PM
There was a picture of a bullet ridden wall in Lebanon, which was called 'Evidence of Israel using cluster bombs'... To everyone who knows a rifle bullet from a cannon shell, it was obvious that the wall was sprayed with machine gun fire, but have anyone in the media investigated? Nope!

Anonymous
June 27th, 2008
8:06 PM
How am I unsurprised in the deception of the Palestinians. They have been playing to the camera for many, many years.

marceau
June 27th, 2008
9:06 PM
shame on the Israeli Government for not providing support for Karsenty. one wonders if Chirac had not left office that the verdict might not have been reversed. The evidence is very conclusive in that the Al durah incident was just one of many staged fake incidents carried out on that day for the benefit of the western press eager for plausible evidence of israeli attrocities. Shame on all those agencies.

Christopher Nicholson
June 27th, 2008
10:06 PM
If I were Melanie Phillips I would sue Simon Evans for libel.

Some American
June 28th, 2008
2:06 AM
Gideon Levy's article posted by Stefan Denis says it all. Thank you! Indeed! I highly recommend the Levy article to left-wing anti-semites who cannot accept that any one of there cherished beliefs might be defective. Maintain the purity of the discourse!!

Mladen Andrijasevic
June 28th, 2008
8:06 AM
The Israelis definitely have a blind spot for public relations. If the Mossad managed to obtain Khrushchev’s Secret Speech at the 20th Party Congress of the CPSU (1956) , kidnap Nazi war criminal Adolf Eichmann (1960), and organize the defection (and the rescue of his family) of the Iraqi pilot who flew his MiG 21 to Israel (1966), surely the Shin Bet could get hold of Al Dura and through DNA testing prove that the whole affair was staged once and for all. This would be as effective as the IAF obtaining the new F22s.

Mladen Andrijasevic
June 28th, 2008
9:06 AM
Gideon Levi ,as usual, sidetracks the main issue: Palestinians deliberately target civilians . The Israeli Army may unintentionally kill the innocent, or intentionally kill the guilty, but it does not intentionally kill the innocent. This is well illustrated in Bret Stephans’s article: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121003365007069313.html?mod=hpp_us_insid... … In May 2002, at the height of the so-called al-Aqsa Intifada, I reviewed Israeli and Palestinian casualty figures, sticking to Palestinian sources for Palestinian numbers and Israeli sources for Israeli ones. Much was then being made in the Western media of the fact that three times as many Palestinians as Israelis had been killed in the conflict – evidence, supposedly, that despite the suicide bombings, lynchings and roadside ambushes perpetrated daily against Israelis, Palestinians were the ones who really were getting it in the neck. But drilling down into the data, something interesting turned up. At the time, 1,296 Palestinians had been killed by Israelis – of whom a grand total of 37, or 2.8%, were female. By contrast, of the 496 Israelis killed by Palestinians (including 138 soldiers and policemen), there were 126 female fatalities, or 25%. To be female is a fairly reliable indicator of being a noncombatant. Females are also half the population. If Israel had been guilty of indiscriminate violence against Palestinians, the ratio of male-to-female fatalities would not have been 35-1.

neil craig
June 28th, 2008
4:06 PM
This may well be an even more deliberate fake than ITN's concentration camp video from Bosnia. Fortunately the French judge didn't say though it was a fake that "doesn't matter" & they should still find for the TV company as the british judge did. Makes you wonder how much of what gets reported really happened in anything.

Stefan Denis
June 28th, 2008
9:06 PM
The Gideon Levy point is that by focusing on a possible case of gross deception (I say possible because, as far as I can make out (and I am open to coorection) the judges ruled that there was room for doubt, not that the footage was fabricated) many other abuses are ignored (and killings via side-effects that pay little or no attention to proportionate overall benefits and burdens are little different, morally, from directly intended killings). Is the "room for doubt" suggestion the reason why there appears to be so little fuss about the story in Israel? As to targeting civilians versus non-targeting (Palestinians versus Israelis) see Norman Finkelstein's Beyond Chutzpah (a very thorough analysis of Human Rights groups on the question). Before making ad hominem attacks on Finkelstein - find me a SINGLE error or misrepresentation by F. on this matter. As for the same question applied to the 2006 Israeli-Lebanon conflict check Jonathan Cook's Israel and the Clash of Civilisations. Again - read it - if there is an error point it out. If not amend your views!

Boaz Moshkovich
June 30th, 2008
10:06 AM
Stefan Denis, Gideon Levy lies constantly and that is what he did in the article you brought. The "death" of Mohammed A-Dura was not filmed, as he blatantly misled you. The film only shows the boy lying on the ground, there are no signs of death whatsoever. The hoax was proved by the physicist Nahum Shahaf with scores of scientific evidences, Gideon Levy ignores them all. That is what he does every time he caught on wrong facts he published, he ignores every bit of information that doubts his reports. Gideon Levy is the only field reporter who covers Arab matters without knowing Arabic language. The PLO and Hamas send him "interpretators" that feed him with propaganda lies which he puts in the newspaper without any check. This reminds of Leon Feuchtwanger who wrote a book gloryfing the Stalin regime after the NKVD feed him stories. If you read Gideon Levy (and other "reporters" of his kind) constantly, by now you might keep in mind much information that was simply fabricated. Mohammed A-Dura's case is the outstanding case but actually only one out of scores of cases you were premeditadedly misled about.

Mel
June 30th, 2008
5:06 PM
Dear Ms Phillips - Sorry, I’m not getting your point. What were you aiming to achieve with this report? To enlighten us about reckless and ideologically-driven journalism? That’s no news. To muddy the water in an attempt to make us believe that all the victims are responsible for their own death? I got you wrong, I hope. Facts speak for themselves: http://www.btselem.org/english/statistics/Casualties.asp , 29.9.2000-31.5.2008, Palestinian minors killed by Israeli security forces: total 944! Israel claims being the only democracy in the Middle East with a commitment to human rights … so … is there any public outrage in Israel about the mass killings of Palestinian children? Strange, isn’t it? This reminds me very much of the Germans in 1945, when they all claimed being innocent and ignorant about the Holocaust. History does repeat itself. Both sides are trying hard to find apologies for their terror and YES, terror does exist on both sides, it is not exclusive to the Palestinians. A good writer, Ms Phillips, should have more than one dimension – otherwise, you’re running risk to become Pavlov’s dog.

Mel
June 30th, 2008
6:06 PM
@Boaz – you shouldn’t put anti-Zionism on a level with anti-Semitism. Gideon Levy is an astute observer and I’m glad, that there is some decency left in Israel. It takes a great deal of guts to speak the truth that few dare to speak. Another great fellow is: Tony Judt http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2007/feb/11/religion.uk 'What changed for me,' says Judt, 'was that in 1967 I went out as a volunteer at the time of the Six Day War; after the war was finished I volunteered for auxiliary military service and I ended up as a sort of informal translator for other volunteers up on the Golan Heights. And there for the first time I began to see another face of Israel that had been camouflaged from me by my enthusiasm for the idealism of the kibbutz movement.' He became, he recalls, quickly very detached from Israel.

Boaz Moshkovich
July 1st, 2008
12:07 PM
Mel, I wasn't talking about anti-semitism, but yes, "anti-zionism" is one of most filthy hypocritic forms of anti-semitism. Your words about "mass killings of Palestinian children" is an ultimate proof for that. You don't know what is going on there, you take your opinions from the crooks like Gideon Levy. His is not a brave trooth speaker but a coward lier and conformist. I have facts. To understand that it takes more profound knowledge of the Israeli reality, then one might obtain by using sewage pits like 'haaretz' and 'guardian' as a sources of information. And more: the palestinian symbol Muhammad A-Dura wasn't killed, it was a staged event, like a common movie. It is prooved by scientific tools, as I already wrote, not by general words. There were more occurances of that kind. Some children were murdered in a clushes beteween Arab families, some died from deseases or accidents - PA registered them as "shahids" killed by IDF. Some were killed by IDF accidently when fighting terrorists, but none were murdered. Actually, there no true statistics. The number you gave (944) is hot air. And depicting the situation as "mass killing of Palestinian children" reminds of blood libel and Catholic inqusition.

Cato
July 1st, 2008
3:07 PM
France 2 lied - people died France 2 delenda est

Stefan Denis
July 1st, 2008
7:07 PM
Boaz, The "ultra" Orthodox Jews are anti-Zionists but hardly anti-Semites (they justify their position, after all, by reference to a commonsensical interporetation of some passages in the Talmud). Also, the vast majority of world Jewry was explicitly Anti-Zionist when Herzl was promoting the idea, and remained so for a long time. As to facts (which you don't cite) - you have yet to refute any of the human rights organisations findings, a survey of which I referred you to. Unless you believe that all (including Israeli ones) are involved in a vast anti-Israeli conspiracy, you have to accept that an awful lot of Palestinian children have been killed in reckless operations where their resultant deaths, if not deliberately intended, were the result of their lives being accorded such minimal value in the light of often ill-focused military operations (and often amounting to near indiscriminate killing) that we are dealing with acts morally simlar too deliberate killing (i.e. acts always morally wrong). Certain IDF chiefs and leading rabbis have been very open about the justice of collective punishment. Little surprise then that we get the figures we do. Levy is not the issue. If France 2 lied that is disgraceful. If you use that incident to imply that the IDF doesn't child kill - or goes to great lengths to avoid it - then you too are behaving disgracefully. Please refute the studies referred to in a previous email. Otherwise I suggest that you keep your peace.

sheik yer'mami
July 2nd, 2008
1:07 AM
Great article, Melanie, just the facts, as always. Here's more: http://sheikyermami.com/2008/07/02/pallywood-exposed-al-doura-affair-sho...

Henry Weiss
July 2nd, 2008
10:07 AM
Stefan Denis, Mel, Simon Evans et al, I think you should stick to the Guardian's CIF site. You'll get far less upset by what you read there as most of the comment is from Israel haters and demonisers. By reading that you can avoid the truth as it is presented here and continue with your own world views, happy and untroubled by facts !

Stefan Denis
July 2nd, 2008
1:07 PM
Mr Weiss, It is your post that avoids the facts, and it is mine that points readers towards them. Thanks for the CIF smear though. Telling,and it sure beats the effort of deploying an argument. Still, smearing critics has a long tradition amongst certain people (have a look at Ginsberg's The Fatal Embrace for tips). btw I'm more a reader of The American Conservative than the Guardian in case you're interested.

Boaz Moshkovich
July 2nd, 2008
1:07 PM
Stefan Denis, you know perfectly well what kind of anti-zionism I meant, your referral to the ultra-ortodox Jews and the opponents of Hertzel is not intellectual. Israel is slandered constatntly by different organizations, some of them known as "israeli". But actually "Betselem" is well-monied from abroad anti-Israel group. Their reports are false, it was proved many times by Jonatan Dahuah-Halevy (and couple of times by me), whose name you propabaly never heard and whose works still known only to some Hebrew-readers. IDF is not a child-killer, period. What you say is Middle-age blood libel. Look, I cannot explain you all the facts in talkbacks. Lie is usually short, but it's debunk might be complicated. But the point is you don't have proofs for your accusations, only stories similar to Al-Durra so-called "death" case. I studied the matter and I have facts, so your words that I should "keep my peace" are real chutzpa. If your have someone to translate you, there are some materials on my site: www.boazmh.net. The rest will come.

Mel
July 2nd, 2008
2:07 PM
Boaz, come on, this is ridiculous. B’Tselem is an ISRAELI information center and for sure it is not infiltrated by Palestinians. Click on the numbers for a list of individual names and details about the circumstances of their death. It says that most of them did NOT participate in hostilities when killed: killed with her mother and three siblings while eating breakfast in the yard of their house, killed when on the street with friends, shot in the stomach while at home, shot in the head by soldiers who had gone onto the roofs of houses, killed when he and his friends were playing soccer near their house, killed while sleeping in his bed when the ceiling collapsed on him, killed when riding in a car with his family, killed when gathering wood, killed while flying a kite at the beach, killed while on his way to buy candy at a store next to her school. … 'Abd al-Karim Khaled Salem Zaharan, 15 year-old resident of Deir Abu Mash'al, Ramallah and al-Bira district, killed while standing with a group of children on a hill. A soldier in an army jeep fired at the children from a distance of about 300 meters, hitting him … is that what you call ‘accidentally’? To think that Palestinians are deliberately putting their children in the front line knowing that they will get killed to make the other side look bad – is that what makes you feel more comfortable and less hysterical? That’s sick! The distortion of facts is the modus operandi of people like you, who are defending the mass killings of children. And you shouldn’t be worried; I have a large diversity of information sources. Only paranoid minds are picking up the bits they want to link to their views. As for Muhammad Al-Dura, he’s a symbol, if dead or alive, he gives a face to all the nameless victims. I couldn’t care less about the media who bend and twist things to suit their own point of view. Every war is fought on two grounds, the battlefield and the media (via propaganda).

Stefan Denis
July 2nd, 2008
3:07 PM
This is not good enough Boaz. It's not just single Human Rights groups. It is a massive consensus - not just Betselem but across the board. There is no blood-libel. I am merely relying on these sources, and I don't think the entire consensus can be dismissed. Do they all hate Israel??? If you look at their records the vast majority don't even single Israel out. As to Anti-Zionism - don't use the term if it's not accurate. All I have asked is for a refutation of what I have read. Thus far I have had none. And of course the human rights groups across the board DO claim to have proofs (had you looked at what I referred you to you would have seen this). Of course I am prepared to look at the evidence and of course I don't want to engage in any blood libel. But calling something a blood libel does not make it so. As to child-killing - a lot of children were killed in the 2006 war in Lebanon and again human rights organisations found this was due to indiscriminate bombing (and what about all those cluster bombs I mentioned). Moreover Human Rights Watch certainly singled out the Hizbullah for more criticism than the IDF, unlike many "Israel-haters". And certainly statements by Defence minister Amir Peretz and (allegedly) by IDF Chief of Staff Halutz re. targeting neighborhoods and residential buildings don't inspire confidence. Regardless of these, the cluster bomblets alone are bad enough. Read through the reports, look at how they coincide etc. I'll try and look at your evidence and I thank you for pointing me to it. Let's not assume anyone hates any country merely for trying to find out what's going on. I'll stop for now.

Reb Shlomo Silverstein
July 2nd, 2008
6:07 PM
Stefan Denis, you are ignorant of the facts. As a Chareidi (Ultra-Orthodox) Jew living in Israel myself I can tell you that 99% of Chareidim are not Anti-Zionist. They are Non-Zionist which is a big difference. We don't like using the word Zionism as this is a secular political movement which denies the holiness of the Jewish people. We don't serve in the army as there is much immodesty and lack of Torah. However, look at almost all Chareidi magazines or newspapers and you will see ultra pro-Israel articles. Obviously a secular Jewish government is better than a gentile one in Israel. Obviously we support the IDF who protect us. The Anti-Zionist Netorei Karta is a tiny minority of some 50 families that have no power but make a lot of noise. We condemn them as supporting anti-Semites and enemies of Israel. Your reference to "commonsensical interpretation of some passages in the Talmud" is complete nonsense. These misguided ones quote Mesecha Kesuvos 111a which itself quotes a midrash which is never used for halacha LeMaaseh (practical Jewish decisions). All the leaders of our generation have rejected this opinion. In short AntiZionists are anti-Semites, even Jewish ones.

Don Rodrigo
July 2nd, 2008
7:07 PM
I know for a fact that there are Anti-Zionists who are not Anti-Semitic. I met both of them in 1979.

Don Rodrigo
July 2nd, 2008
7:07 PM
"Mel," what an unfortunate choice of username considering your views. You didn't go on a Tequila bender before signing on, did you?

Boaz Moshkovich
July 2nd, 2008
8:07 PM
So the blood libel has a high rating in the world. Congratulations! Most of the "war-crimes" that Israel was accused on in Lebanon were debunked – what planet you lived on when that information was published? Planet "Guardian"?.. The initial topic of this article and the discussion is the Muhammad Al-Durah case. It was staged for the camera, as were scores of events of that kind which were reported by "human-right" organizations as authentical. Yet, the real child-murderer Samir Kuntar is praised by Arab states, including Palestinian Authority officials, as a big hero. What your so-called "human-righters" have to say about that? One of our radical left writers Ronit Matalon saw herself Arab children in Gaza sent forward against the IDF by armed men. She told it to a friend from "Betselem" and he told her not to publish it because it "damages the goal". That was in an interview she herself gave to "Yedioth Ahronoth" newspaper. Nevertheless, she took part in a legal suite against Dan Halutz. Today there was another terrorist attack in Jerusalem. An Arab from East Jerusalem drove a bulldozer into a street traffic, killing three and injuring more than forty before he was killed by policemen. The initial headline in BBC was "Israel bulldozer driver shot dead". So give me a break… I'll stop for now too.

Stefan Denis
July 3rd, 2008
6:07 AM
Reb Silverstein I refer you to Yitzak Rabkin's A Threat From Within: Jewish Opposition to Zionism. This scholar's informed opinion differs markedly from yours and I see no reason to reject his carefully argued and documented work (incl. on the Haredim). I took "Opposition" to denote Anti-Zionism not Non-Zionism. Either way your equation of Anti-Zionism with Anti-Semitism is unwarranted unless you are making an identity statement and thereby distorting the common meaning of words. I said I'll stop and I will but to Boaz I would simply say (even though you never addressed my concerns) that I have never denied that some reporting of Israeli events is skewed and unfair to Israel. I readily concede that (although it goes both ways). I will try and look up what you told me about. Many thanks.

Mel
July 3rd, 2008
9:07 AM
Dear Rodrigo, nope, it’s not a fake, Mel is short for my real name. How come you see a contradiction between names and views? I bet you didn’t score high in biology, otherwise you’d know that there is no coherence between population genetics and common sense. Unfortunately, we have way too many lemmings in our civilized and enlightened Western society, easy prey for the ‘good and evil’ propaganda, for colonialism and imperialism.

Reb Shlomo Silverstein
July 3rd, 2008
1:07 PM
My point being that you wrote that ultra-orthodox Jews were Ant-Zionists. That's not an opinion, it’s stating an untruth. 99% of Charedim are not Anti-Zionists which can be verified by checking with the organisation of the union of Charedi Jews, namely Agudas Yisrael. Easier yet, go to your nearest Orthodox Jewish community and pick up a copy of Mishpacha magazine or Yaated Neeman newspaper and you will find more pro-Israel articles than most so called Zionist secular Israeli newspapers. Regarding anti-Semitism and anti-Zionism, it is my opinion that anyone who supports terrorist organisations such as Hizbollah, Hamas or Fatach who's goals are to murder Jews and destroy Israel, are clearly anti-Semites. That includes those who were born Jewish!

dorota
July 3rd, 2008
7:07 PM
This is getting so silly I feel the need to intervene. Stefan Denis means Yakov Rabkin (not Yitzhak). Silverstein - what was Jacob Israel de Hahn? Self-described Anti-Zionist and spokesperson for Agudat Israel. Also opposed to those who would massacre Jews. So, err, an Anti-Zionist who surely was not an Anti-Semite (this innocent Jew was, however, murdered by Zionists (Jew killers?)). Case closed. As to groups that make accomadations with Zionism, it doesn't mean that they aren't anti-Zionist, anymore than a group living under a communist regime but fearing something worse might be grateful for the regime while deploring the political ideology. The point is not whether an Anti-Zionist is Jewish or not. It is whether an AZ must an AS. It simply does not follow that an AZ must be an AS - unless you empty both terms of content and use them for politically manipulative purposes. I would recommend against that lest such a ploy backfires. In sum, you haven't justified your position nor have you shown that ultra-Orthodox Jews like MK are necessarily anti-Semitic (do they advocate the massacre of Jews - don't think so - and nor do they support Arab terror groups that do). And even if you had, that would in no way help your major point that AZ=AS (or is a subset of the latter). One more thing - what about those people who advocate a peacefully achieved One State solution to the Israel/Palestine question. Are they necessarily anti-Semites? One can't retain the emotive power of the erm AS while watering it down to include anyone that happens to disagree with you about the question of Israel.

Boaz Moshkovich
July 3rd, 2008
8:07 PM
Mel, there are Israeli Jews working for Betselem (together with Palestinians) but the information that comes from there is mostly a fake. Are you surprised? There were converted Jews who supported blood libel, does it make blood libel a truth? You just cannot know how many stories you mentioned here are simple fakes. Does it make your life easier to believe that Israeli soldiers murder children? Then you are the one who has a sick mind. Betselem produce unprofessional reports. Some of the "facts" you brought there were debunked by Dahuh-Halevy, but when caught by hand Betselem never respond and never correct their "reports". Putting children in the front lines is a fact observed many times. More then that: the PA TV broadcasts constantly short films that educate children to seek for "shahada". Look here: www.pmw.org.il . Al-Durra is a symbol because they make films depicting his happiness in Paradise, saying "come after me". They say to the kids "Look for death and life will be given to you", in these exact words that appeared on the screen in Arabic and English. By the way, PLO did it, not Hamas. So stop telling me about my mind, care about yours.

Boaz Moshkovich
July 4th, 2008
4:07 PM
Dorota, indeed it's getting too silly. Today's Anti-Zionism means opposing the existence of Israel on the grounds of "foreign colonization of Palestine by so-called 'Jews' which have no rights there and perform atrocities against Palestinians". This is Anti-Semitism of same kind that was propagated by the Inquisition, Ohrana and Nazis. Your "One State solution to the Israel/Palestine question" unavoidably means killing each and every Jew in the region – read Hamas/PLO inner materials on that, keep away from dubious interpretations by crooked ultraleft columnists and ignorant political activists.

Richard
July 7th, 2008
2:07 AM
The One State Solution is still anti-semtitic for a very simple reason. By advocating this line, you are implying that of all nations, ONLY the Jews are not allowed to view themselves as a nation or to live in a nation-state guided by Jewish values. Only the Jews are barred. Then that means you are an anti-semite. Politically what you propose is handing over Israeli citizens to live alongside people who have been taught to hate and murder Jews for the last sixty or more years. This is like telling the Holocaust survivors to go make friends with the SS! Btselem are like many left-wing fellow-traveller groups (such as the ISM) in that they uncritically accept the accounts of the "oppressed" (read PalArabs) and automatically cast doubt on and assume the guilt of the "imperialists" (Israel and the West). They are a perfect manifestation of Masochistic Omnipitence Syndrome. Everytime there is an accusation of "massacred children", it turns out to be faked. Everytime the MSM repeat claims of Israeli airstrikes wiping out families taking picnics or such, these are either faked or it turns out that the "resistance" were responsible (usually through carelessness) - just look up how many "work accidents" have occured in Gaza in the last two years alone. No, the few Ultra-Orthodox Jews who oppose Israel's existence do so from a mystical religious perspective. They do not oppose Israel's existence because they might be anti-semitic: their position is not politically motivated. To those left-wingers still addicted to the poison of anti-semitic libel, go to Richard Landes' site Second Draft and WATCH the videos of the faked injuries, killings and funerals - including the Hamas funeral where the "corpse" gets up and walks away. You are being taken for fools by your enemies (who are not us).

Vulcan
July 7th, 2008
5:07 AM
Assuming Melanie's professionalism trumps her partisanship and her intellect her emotions (just) her story is unsurprising. There is a war between those who understandably and with international backing want to maintain the integrity of Israel and those who can hardly be criticised for wanting to damage or even destroy Israel as it affects and has affected them however much we may deplore the unrealism of Arabs who have lived in refugee camps raising families of ten and more children. And in a war psy-ops and black propaganda is only to be expected. If Melanie puts the greatest blame on France 2 and its reporter she is right. It and he had no excuse for their major contribution to the slaughter which followed. The defenders of Israel, of which I am often one, who have written as such to contribute to this discussion, are, in too many cases, blind to the fact that Israel is not and is not likely to be seen 200 years from now as an exemplary state on any dimension, except courage and ingenuity, despite its achievements and those of so many of its citizens. Democratic government is always difficult to run efficiently and fairly and Israel's obstacles to a good, prosperous and peaceful life for all virtually its citizens are mind boggling, from the intra-Judaic religious differences, including formal and informal privileges, an emotional attachment to Jerusalem as Jewish which defies rationality and history and is derangingly powerful, understandable suspicion and wariness backing up the bad motives for encouraging settlers to destroy the viability of a future Palestinian state unless (miraculously) incorporated in it, and so on, and on and on. But what a disaster it was to settle the West Bank after the Six Day War. What a shame that risks, big risks, weren't taken. What a shame there isn't a Palestinian state with capital in East Jerusalem. Indeed what a shame Jerusalem isn't legally an international city in which two nations have their capitals. Just on one issue alone this could have been, and perhaps still could be, critical; because even the maddest of Ayatollahs in Iran are hardly likely to use nuclear weapons on a city which is a Muslim capital. It is true that nuclear strikes on Israel's coastal cities would be devastating, but the assured destruction of Iran in return would,almost certainly, be adequate deterrent. Of course it is unlikely that Iran, unless under a truly mad leader, would seek to annihilate Jerusalem under any circumstances, which leads to the question whether Iran's possible use of nuclear weapons is to be feared so much that direct action by Israel or the US could be justified on the ground that the benefit would outweigh the costs. That Iran might be able to supply terrorists with nuclear weapons is, perhaps, the worst case... but that again leads to the question of how much risk Israel is and should be prepared to run. 1 per cent chance of disaster, 5 per cent? And who is to make the fine judgments: even Israeli intelligence has made mamy big mistakes.

Don Kenner
July 7th, 2008
3:07 PM
Using Norman Finklestein as a source on Israel is like using the BNP as a source for immigration and race relations. If that's all the anti-Israel fanatics have then may I say Game, Set, and Match to Melanie Phillips.

Anonymous
July 7th, 2008
8:07 PM
Rachael Corey didn't get up. http://www.rachelcorrie.org/ More and more folks in the U.S. are finding out the truth in spite of AIPAC spin doctors.

Stefan Denis
July 8th, 2008
1:07 PM
Mr Kenner - thanks for the making the ad hominem re. Finkelstein. If you tackled the ball instead of the man you might be worth listening to. Still, it must be nice not having to supply evidence for any of your assertions (I liked the "anti-Israel fanatics" line too. Sophisticated, charitable and courageous - no beginning to your talents). Re. One-State solution. What are these "Jewish values" that guide the State of Israel? Would Jews happily accept a "Russian Orthodox" State that effectively relegated them to 2nd class citizens (or denied citizenship)? If you would, then I'll start listening to you re. Israel.

Richard
July 8th, 2008
4:07 PM
To Rachael Correy man. Have you seen the IDF released footage of her death? She and her little trotskyite pals in the ISM were trying to protect Hamas and Islamic Jihad smuggling tunnels in Gaza, not houses from demolition. Furthermore, defectors from the ISM have said that the Palestinian handlers for the activists were trying to get them killed so they could have "martyrs" for the cause. Go look at Lee Kaplan's blog or look for the video on Youtube. What "second class" citizens, Mr Denis? You mean the Israeli Arabs who can vote, have equal rights with other Israelis except that they are not called up for national service but can volunteer? If you are talking about the Palestinian Arabs then we are talking about something else. Go look at the Jerusalem Centre for Public Affairs and you might find that the West Bank and Gaza at NO time counted as "occupied" but instead come under "disputed territories". Try and wean yourself from the pro-palestinian myths and look at what they teach their kids and preach in the mosques. Palestinian Media Watch is a good source or try MEMRI.

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